Violin Forum/Message Board

ollieken · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: Stain

Can you add a coat of stain on top of varnish breaking the varnish seal first Is this possible with out a mess just want to darken it a bit
Ken

Michael Darnton · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:31 am Post subject:

You can rub on oil paint, very, very thin (rub it out a lot). Some of it will stick, and then you can cover it over, after it dries, or wipe it off selectively and leave it. If you just want to add a darkening patina, try burnt umber.

ollieken · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: stain

Thank you michael for the reply will test it on some wood to see if burnt amber is what i want or leave well enough alone

Chet Bishop · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:41 am Post subject:

Try it on top of varnish, on scrap-- it does not look at all the same on fresh wood.

jessupe goldastini · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:22 am Post subject:

yes this is called "sizing" i'm sure theres some cryptic italian word for this

ie a light base coat is applied, generally wax free shellac dramaticlly thined or a light hyde glue coating...

in the world of staining soft woods and maple are notoriuous for taking stain "blotchy' when applied to raw wood...

by applying a light sealer coat the pours in the grain of the wood will be filled up with the sealer, this creates an even "playing field" for stain absorbtion

softwoods have areas where more sap and oil resides as well as areas where the wood is "dryer" and more absorbant, where more sap and oil are present this will prevent stain absorbtion and thus these random areas will show lighter

where more dry these areas will suck the stain in and show darker

wood like maple takes unevenly more based on the dryer more absorbant areas and that the grain often times has "cowlicks" that can show darker or lighter depending on density...

size coats aliveate the uneven absorbtion..

as the coats progress you can add more stain coats, to add trace color for antiquing, after many coats of varnish have been applied the stain will mostly wipe off,it just goes in to pits and nooks and cranys, which is good for "the old look" thing....also for worn antiquqing the "rubed" away look can be achieved with the aid of size coats, stain may be applied and then rubed off with the aid of the coresponding stain solvent{very sparringly} in the approprite places..ie. chin shoulder area and upper right bout....with a proper size coat, it will allow for controled color removal, as the stain is on the sealer not in the wood

jessupe goldastini · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:36 am Post subject:

also....
DON'T USE ALCOHOL BASED STAIN WITH SHELLAC....it will melt the size coat

use either water base or oil paints/stain as mr. darton sugested....

a quick easy way is to go to a paint store and buy universal paint tints...mix some in a little water , pre moisten your rag then just dip and rub on/off....this is a very easy way as it allows for lots of open time and allows for corretions by remoistening the rag and re wiping...

a nice color is ventian red with burnt umber and a dash of lamp black.

these universal tints may be used with any medium, HOWEVER...the cut medium for these tints is esther glycol....this is a toxic chemical, you should wear gloves when applying the tint water mixture, thankfully it has a very low odor that requires no chemical mask

ollieken · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: stain

Thank you all for the good advice
ken