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Jim Williams Junior Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 8 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: Restoration Book |
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Hi, can someone point me towards a good book on Violin restoration?
There seems to be plenty of books around on building Violins, but I can't find anything that deals exclusively with restoring, i.e crack repairs, fingerboard replacement, neck resetting, etc.
Thanks. |
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moronsreign Junior Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 8 Location: Idaho
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: Restoration |
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One book stands head and shoulders above the rest: The Art of Restoration by Weisshar and Shipman. That may not be the correct title, sorry, but the authors are sine qua non when it comes to restoration. |
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Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Uh, well, if you mean in the 50s sense of running roughshod over the instrument, yes, but now much of the type of work they show is considered butchery. But it is the only book available. |
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Jeffrey Holmes Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 90 Location: Ann Arbor
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the Weisshaar book is heavy handed in several areas, but it also contains some very good practical information, measurements and useful methods. If you ask yourself "will this do any harm?", and don't follow each procedure blindly (ask someone who is up on the modern methods before proceeding), you should be OK. _________________ Jeffrey
http://holmesviolins.com |
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Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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The problem I've run into discussing the methods with people who aren't trained is that they don't perceive the possibility of an an alternate method that's less intrusive. For instance, it's not necessary to sand off a path of original varnish around a crack to retouch the crack. When I asked one of the original authors at a VSA meeting presentation "what about just retouching only the crack without sanding off a bunch of original varnish" she actually responded "no one can do that", which is completely ridiculous--it's done all the time. If the author can't conceive of a less intrusive way, what chance does a person who has no experience at all? |
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Jeffrey Holmes Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 90 Location: Ann Arbor
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Michael Darnton wrote: | The problem I've run into disucssing the methods with people who aren't trained is that they don't perceive the possibility of an an alternate method that's less intrusive. For instance, it's not necessary to sand off a path of original varnish around a crack to retouch the crack. When I asked one of the original authors at a VSA meeting presentation "what about just retouching only the crack without sanding off a bunch of original varnish" she actually responded "no one can do that", which is completely ridiculous--it's done all the time. If the author can't conceive of a less intrusive way, what chance does a person who has no experience at all? |
Hey Michael;
You know my own philosophy, so you already know I agree with what you’re saying concerning a conservative approach…
“She” was trained (and only one of the authors, not that the other one would have been any more reasonable). I think the point is that some people can’t conceive of a less intrusive method, training or no.
There are certainly sections of that book that should be viewed with caution, but here is some rather good information as well. I believe alarm bells should go off any time someone says “remove this portion” (of the original wood, finish, etc.). First, do no harm.
What the book does have to offer are methods to approach certain problems, some nice jigs and guides, and good basic information dealing with the setup and basic restoration of instruments. It is a bit antiquated, as restoration has become more conservative (at least in the top end of things), but there are a number procedures that are still valid and useful.
Also, let's hope that anyone working on the restoration of a decent instrument has some good, solid training to back up their approach.... and isn't relying on a manual for the bulk of their education anyway (mail order restoration training?)... _________________ Jeffrey
http://holmesviolins.com |
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Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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" I think the point is that some people can’t conceive of a less intrusive method, training or no. "
Exactly, which is why I prefer resources which are reliable. |
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Jeffrey Holmes Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 90 Location: Ann Arbor
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Michael Darnton wrote: |
Exactly, which is why I prefer resources which are reliable. |
Wish there was one to recommend. Maybe it's time to start one? You game? _________________ Jeffrey
http://holmesviolins.com |
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Jim Williams Junior Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 8 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies but it looks like it's a good job I didn't rush out and blow $300 on the W&S book if this post is anything to go by
http://asmallapple.net/~violins/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22&sid=2357e2cfb1f8d18d9008c7e05a13f8d6
Seems odd that there isn't a book out there covering the most common repair jobs.
I've worked with timber and handtools for nigh on 40 years and have recently turned some of the expertise gained to rescuing old, cheap, fiddles that are worse for wear and are not worth the time of a professional restorer/builder trying to make a living.
I'm not trying to put anyone out of work or wreck valuable instruments, but a book with a few tips on dealing with common repairs would be useful to many I would have thought. |
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Leif Luscombe Site Admin
Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 126 Location: Mount Elgin, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: |
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I think there is much valuable information in the book. I have a shop copy and refer to it often when doing neck setting, neck grafts and other repairs - I wouldn't want to be without it.
Having said that, there is precious little in print on any subject that I will be in complete agreement with - even in music, I will purchase a CD for one or two tracks - I think that by combing through resources and using experience mixed with a little common sense many of these reference works are useful. _________________ Leif Luscombe
Violin Maker and Dealer
The Violin Forum Moderator |
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shershey Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 28 Location: Dillsburg, PA
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: Restoration Books |
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Jim,
The W&S methods are somewhat outdated and aggressive but, given what you want to try to do, I believe this book would be a good start. Expensive for what you may need but, helpful non the less.
I guess if one of us had the time, another book could be written but, it too would fall victim to the critics. You see, there are so many ways to solve a repair/restoration problem that no one book could cover it all. So, unless you get formal training, trial and error along with this forum, will have to be your guide.
Good luck and enjoy the process.
Scott. |
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Jim Williams Junior Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 8 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Leif Luscombe wrote: | I will purchase a CD for one or two tracks |
Same here Leif.
Thanks for that info about the book though. I'll have to save my pennies and get a copy. Trouble is, I can get 3 fiddles on ebay for that
shershey wrote: | I guess if one of us had the time, another book could be written but, it too would fall victim to the critics. |
I'd sort of guessed that the dearth of books on the subject was probably because the diversity of opinion about the various ways of going about things.
Anyway, many thanks to you both for your help and you will be hearing from me again, via this forum, no doubt. |
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bacon Junior Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Ashland ,Oregon
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: restoration |
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I started working with the Weisshar and Shipman book some 20 years ago doing school repairs. I admit I never mastered everything in the book but I did learn a great deal. Along the way via word of mouth from various luthiers and internet forums as well as plenty of library time I have gained a richer understanding of methods. A lot of what I have learned is by examining repairs on older instruments . What worked, what didn't, what showed a masterful hand, and what was hack work. Over the years as more and more older instruments came my way I studied not only restoration, but conservation as well. These use to be two very different fields. Fix it vs don't touch it. We now know that the preservation of these wonderful old items often requires a non invasive maintenance. Especially if they are in use. One must not only hone their skills to mastery but must also be an active student in historic methods.
In truth Michael has written the book , this gifted and well educated author has written a great tome. One just needs to search archives on all the instrument related forums as well as various journals to find the chapters. |
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bacon Junior Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Ashland ,Oregon
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: Restoration |
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corrections and addenda
I first encountered the WEISSHAAR and Shipman book in the UCLA music library soon after it was published in '88. Then a helpful friend gave me a copy.
What I find most incredible about Michael's "book" is that it has been given out of pure generosity.
thank you, Michael. |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: |
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hear hear!
Mat |
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