Violin Forum/Message Board

[Fiddledeedee]

I'm in the process of restoring a violin case as pratice before I try to fix one of my violins. This case has a crack that runs from top to bottom. And also an area of approx 2" by 3" hole. ( seperate from the crack ) I had to cut the hole out larger in order to get the patch to fit well and clean. I shaped out a patch made from an old damaged violin back and got it to fit perfectly!! ( I'm very proud of myself )

My question is which would I fix first? The hole or the crack? From the reading I have done I'm thinking the crack, glue and clamp for a few days, then double it. Then attempt patching and doubleing the hole. This case is approx 100yrs. old. and I'm pretty sure the top and bottom are made of pine, rounded edges made of maple and straight edges made of pine. The area I'm working on now with the damage is the bottom area that the violin would lay in.

Or mabey I'm going about it all wrong?

I look forward to your sugestions. Thanks
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[FiddleDoug]

If the case is pine, then the patch should be pine, preferably old pine with similar cut and grain. For the case, I might suggest using model makers birch plywood as an overlay on the inside over the repair. This can be found in most hobby and craft stores(in the same area where they have the balsa wood). Thicknesses of 1/32" (0.8 mm) and 1/64" (0.4 mm) are available. Post some pictures if you can.
_________________
Doug Wall

www.wallindependent.com

[Fiddledeedee]

Here are some before and what is now shots. I did everything I could to get the 2 first photo's larger and nothing worked. So sorry so small.

These 2 photo's are of the case top. There was a glue/wood filler ( I think)
combo from someone else trying to fix it. I used a super hot damp rag and laid it on the glue. This softened it enough to start chipping at it and it basically peeled off. Took approx 3 hours.




These 2 photos are after the filler whatever it was removed and both top and bottom of the case was sanded down by hand. Took approx another 4 to 5 hours. My arms felt that one. I sanded lightly over the GSB symbol as to hope that when I stain it it will show again some. I will fit the long strip hole with replacement wood also and use bow tie cletes to secure it even better.



These next 2 photos are of the hole I need to patch. I made the hole larger in order to correctly patch in a piece of wood. The part of the case was the one I had the question on about which to fix first. The hole or the crack. The crack extends from top to bottom and I was thinking I need to fix the crack first. Then the hole, then bow shaped clets for doubleing on both areas. I was going to use the wood I have from an old damaged violin back (maple) But I have the top too and I can cut that up also and use it for the patches.





I will continue to take photos if anyone is interested in the progress of it. I will be doing the interior too of course. Any opinions are most welcome.
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Mat Roop]

[Fiddledeedee]

Well I have 2 violins in need of fixing. I will have to take some photos today and post them, but I haven't started those yet.

I was thinking that fixing the case would be kinda close to fixing the violins. They both have cracks and the one has a long hole in the belly like the top of the case. I will have to enlarge it some to make a patch. I'm assuming that becasue of the damage in the belly of this violin it will not sound right afterwards, but the pratice is there.

The case will be good wood working pratice (like you said) and so far Im really enjoying my progress, and very pleased with the work I've done. I sat yesterday for approx 6 hours and carved out and inserted 5 of those bow tie cleets. Looks really good. I'll have to take photo's of that too later today when I add 2 more. Then I'll have to do the same to the bottom piece. And I'm going to carve out a new patch for the hole. The one I originally made was of maple. I will redo one in pine so it matches better.

Thanks for your input
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Mat Roop]

[Fiddledeedee]

Ok here are 2 belly photos of the 3/4 Strad copy I have I'd like to try to fix eventually. This is how it came to me. I friend gave it to me. She was going to throw it out. The long crack does not fit together well at all. I think someone tried to fix it once before and did some sanding on the edges, there's alot of gaps and missing splinters.

Photo of belly laying on the ribs, it's not attached however.

This photo is showing how broken up it really is. Sad huh I doubt it would ever sound good with that much damage.


The rest is not too bad. The scroll is broken and needs one grafted on. Or a whole new neck, you can't tell from the photos but when the belly was removed some of the wood splintered on the edges and is still attached to the ribs. It's is really ruff shape. That's why I figure it won't sound like much once it's put back together. Plus it may not have sounded well to begin with. I thought someone steped on it..but when I looked at the ribs you can see dig marks like someone pryed it off un-forgiving like.
Oh Well...Good Pratice!!
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[FiddleDoug]

You can gently soak the splinters off the ribs with a small ribbon of wet cloth. The splinters can then be glued back into their original spots on the front with Titebond glue, and clamped in place with small spring clamps. Sanding the edges of a crack will never turn out well. Sometimes, a badly glued crack can be re-sawed with a coping saw to get it to come together better. You can find details of this in the Weisshaar and Shipman book, and would be considered an advanced repair (I've never tried it).
_________________
Doug Wall

www.wallindependent.com

[Mat Roop]

fiddledd....for sure not worth the repair for the instrument but for sure will be worth a million bucks for your education and experience if you take it slowly, carefully, and meticulously checking every dimension and fit as you go along. if you make everything as close to perfect as possible, I would bet you will have a good if not a great sounding instrument. likely you will need to do some regraduation as well.
Good luck... keep us posted on your progress and keep asking the little specific questions.
BTW that is exactly how I got started... Got my hands on a $700 CDN suzuki student vioin that had been smashed in a vandalism breakin ( much worse than yours) at a school. I had taken it to several luthiers who said can't be fixed and if you do, it won't sound like a violin!...nothing to lose, I persisted, bought some books, and the upshot was I pieced it together after 6 months ( .... and without knowledge of this great forum!) took it back to the school music director who tested it and reported that it sounded better than all the others in the program! My son's fiddle teacher confirmed the positive opinion and... I was hooked!
Hope it happens to you!.. Cheers, Mat

[Fiddledeedee]

Ok...I got some up dated pictures. of this case I've been working on.
This is the bottom of the case with the hole. I patched it and sanded the exterior and glued the crack (used hide glue) that runs the whole length of the case.


This is the bottom of the case again but the interior. After glueing the crack. I carved out each bow tie and I channeled out the case to hold each bow tie.


This is the top exterior of the case I had to cut and patch a strip of wood into a narrow area. Glued the crack than glued then glued the srtip in. Sanded the exterior.


This is the interior of the top case. I again used the bow ties to help secure the crack.


I used wood puddy in small holes and Cyanoacrylate to use in very fine cracks. Now it's all ready for the stain!! I'd like to use Varnish but this is only a case. Plus not ready to pratice with varnish yet.
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Mat Roop]

FiddleDD... are your bow cleats proud (rising above the bottom of the case).. Can't really tell from the pic. If so, how will you prevent the violin that rests in there from hitting the cleats creating pressure points that may wear out the liner and marr the violin. Keep in mind that some of these cases do not have a lot of room for padding.
Good luck & keep us posted!... Cheers, Mat

[Fiddledeedee]

The bottom of the case they are pretty flush. The top of the case is not as flush. I'm going to use a 1/4 inch padding ( like memory foam) on the bottom and where the body of the violin is to sit I will use it a little thinker. The sides I will basically carve out a violin body shape so it lays nicely with approx 1/8 in of play all around.

I have to add a support for the neck yet to which I'm looking into different ideas for that yet. And I hand carved the door for the storage compartment inside. I'll line all that up too.

The top of the case I will make the foam a bit thinker at the bow kletes thin out some as it edges out. I have a few violins I can use to place in and be sure they all are working well with the interior. I can use tin foil to find any pressure areas and fix from there. Everything of course will be lined with felt ( not real fuzzy kind ). Never did any like this before so it's going to be complete trial an error. But I'm pretty positive I can get it to work.
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Mat Roop]

Looks like you have it under control!... Cheers, Mat

[Mat Roop]

maybe I should have said ... Case Closed!!... Mat