Violin Forum/Message Board

[tomigv]

Hawthorne Wood. I have read that hawthorne is a substitute for boxwood. I have harvested a tree last summer and plan to use it for pegs and tailpieces . The wood is hard , dense . and white with lavendar streaks. Has anyone out there used this wood with any success??. I am very interested in using alternative and local woods for violin and bow making
_________________
I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods,

[Janito]

And why not?

A criterion for avoiding a wood type would be that it has substances that may cause allergic or other type of skin reactions or be noxious in another way.

[Barry Dudley]

If the wood has the properties that you are looking for, give it a try. I have used alternative wood on several violins and the result was excellent. They are all sold to professionals.

Experiment and try something new...if it doesn't turn out they way you want what have you lost? What have you gained...experience.

[Chet Bishop]

Hawthorn is closely related to apples and pears, and is in fact used as rootstock for grafted fruit trees on occasion. I seriously doubt that it will cause any allergic problems

Pear wood is extremely hard, for a domestic, and very even grained. I think folks used to use it for scrolls sometimes.

Chet

[tomigv]

thanks for sharing everyone. when the ebony tailpiece failed on a 1/4 size cello this week. I carved a matching tailpiece from the hawthorne wood . It was difficult to cut with knives, but i got better results when using chinese gouges to carve out the hollows. The wood is very tough , dense, and close grained. I will let it sit for a week before scraping , sanding and polishing, should work
_________________
I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods,

[chrisandcello]

I've just salvaged a couple of long logs from a broken hawthorn to season....sealed the ends with candle wax. Should I leave the bark on or not? ....any advice apreciated........

[tomigv]

Hi chris i harvested the 8 in hawthorne tree. Last sep. I used to use candlewax or sealing wax many years ago. 4 years ago I started to use a commercial end grain sealer ; Leaving the bark on should retard the drying process somewhat. The english climate is milder , than here in kansas city where the moisture is about 65 % and ranges from 5 deg C in winter to 35 deg C in summer. I would keep those logs coverd with a tarp or old plywood or something to keep the rain off and sun . I would also make sure that they are at least 2ft off the grond outside or 50 cm . if in a garage ,you can leave them in a neat pile. You also might want to split the piece into 4 wedge shaped pieces using an axe, froe or bandsaw. this way you will get the best, and toughest pieces that have been cleaved along the grain. I have used a microwave to make some pegs. Be careful 30 sec is about all they can tolerate after about 8 mo of air drying . They can easily split and crack, if they are in the microwave too long ! or worse if you forget to take them out ,charring, and fire. Keep a close watch on your logs, too make sure there is not much splitting and checking. If there is, I start to cut the pieces into smaller lengths e. g. 1 ft or 2 ft or whatever you plan to use the wood for. I resawed quite a few pieces into 2 in wide by 5/8in thick by 5 in long for peg stock this signifigantly decreases drying time hope this helps cheers ernie
_________________
I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods,

[chrisandcello]

Thanks Ernie,
I'm in the UK so guess the climate may be similar...not sure.
2 things on my mind....
What would be the best age to start splitting it?...and do you thing its characteristics would make a bow...or just tails and pegs?

[tomigv]

Hi chris I would split the hawthorne, while it was still green or fresh. It would be difficult to split with traditional mauls and wedges once it was dry as the wood is too hard . After splitting ,I would seal the end grain. I have a large bandsaw which I use to quatersaw small pieces. The climate here is a lot sunnier than in britain. rain is sporadic and the air is damp in spring and very dry in the winter less than 35 % humidity. and very humid in summer . Hawthorne was probably used as staves for the backs of english and french lutes, It can be used for pegs, tailpieces, and chinrests, I have some really nice commercial boxwood ones. It could be a substitute for fingerboards for guitars, ukes and mandolins. You could also use it for bridge stock for smaller instruments. I/ve weighed the hawthorne, and the density and weight equal indian rosewood. I stained a sample piece of hawthorne yesterday with ammonia, gives it a nice aged look , or you can oil it wax it and buff it out regards ernie
_________________
I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods,

[tomigv]

Hi one more thing I failed to mention, pernambuco typically used in bowmaking varies in density from .9 to 1.15 with water being a density of 1 bowmakers look for wood that has a density of over 1.05 that has the same charachteristics as pernambuco. In order to understand how to find other woods that match the density , flexibility, working qualities strength etc, etc you need to have some experience making bows out of pernam, so you can have a reference point by which you can judge the merits of the other species you are working on. This requires time , money and experience. The only local wood I.ve tried here is osage orange, which has about the same density as brazilian rosewood about .80 ,too light for most bowmaking . the hawthorne here is about .75 too light and doesn.t bend well in my opinion. Hope this answers your questions. If you google alternate bow woods you may find other species that are occasssionally used e. g. lemonwood, ironwood etc. from the carribean regards ernie
_________________
I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods,

[chrisandcello]

Thanks for the info ernie....I'll dig out the lump hammer and find something suitable to split the logs

[tomigv]

What is a lump hammer ? Have never heard that term I/m guessing it means metal splitting eidges to pop open the log. I use locust gluts or wedges in conjunction with metal splitting wedges. to bust open logs. I also use a stihl chainsaw to start the cut, this helps a lot, to start the kerf or sawcut for metal and wooden wedges. You might borrow an english book . Green woodworking by a fellow named abbott in the uk lots of good info on splitting logs, using traditional tools . Good luck ernie
_________________
I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods,

[chrisandcello]

Hi ernie...a 'lump hammer' (over here) is the nearest thing to a sledge hammer that can be held and used in one had....used it to knock an axe to start the split....then a pounded a flat crow bar through the rest......I'll look out for the book...sounds interesting............

[tomigv]

Hi once you start the split, you can wedge and pop the rest of the log by pounding in gluts, or large hardwood wedges along the length the opening cut cheers ernie
_________________
I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods,