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Third position - help

 
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Porcovsky
Junior Member


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 2
Location: São Paulo

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Third position - help Reply with quote

Hello, fiddling friends.

My name is Felipe (a.k.a. Jorge Suíno), from Brazil, and I started learning the violin in early 2006. My teacher started giving me lessons that included the 3rd position several months ago, and I was so overwhelmed with how goddamn hard it was that I ended up "shelving" this issue. Seriously, it's freaking impossible to get the perfect pitch when I shift.

However, I figure that it's been long enough and I should be able to face it head-on by now, so I'd like to know if anybody can provide me with stuff that can help me memorize exactly where my hand's supposed to be when I move over to this position. Visual aids, whatever. Anything.

Thanks Very Happy
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Shirley
Senior Member


Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 178
Location: West of Denver, Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Porkovsky! Position work is difficult at first, but the way to feel comfortable in third position (it takes time!) is to memorize just where your left hand is when you slide into position (sliding your finger onto the note is a help). Your hand will probably be snug against the body of the violin - then you just have to remember where is the best place to put down your finger. It will become easier and easier, although perfect intonation every time is a situation devoutly to be wished.

You are right - It IS "freaking" difficult. The sooner you get into this, though, the better. The whole fingerboard should be your playground. (So it is said - I haven't gotten there yet.) Good luck!!

There are several other ways to get get comfortable in positions other than first, some having to do with the way in which scales and arpeggios are played, but that may come later.

Lots of luck!! Shirley
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little lady
Junior Member


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 22
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just keeping shifting from first position to third over and over again. Begin with first finger in first position to first finger in third. Let your ear tell you if you are hitting ´d´ on the A string. The open D string should be vibrating somewhat if you are stopping in the right place.
Then notice the position of your elbow or rather the angle of your elbow. My teacher has told me that the angle of our elbows (the angle created by the forearm and upper arm) in the different positions should be something we pay attention to and can be a great guide to getting the positions right.
When I first began violin a former teacher taught me that my left hand should slightly touch the body of the violin when I came to third position. This helped me, but later it is a bad habit to break when you want to use vibrato in third position.
Just don´t get frustrated and be willing to take it slowly, as it will come in time if you are persistent with your practice. Remember, nothing in violin comes easily to the average person. It is a lot of work, and even professionals have told me that. I had a violinist friend who used to play in the Hollywood Orchestra for movies, and he never stopped telling me that "playing the violin is Hard Work."
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Porcovsky
Junior Member


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 2
Location: São Paulo

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, you were both very helpful.

Do you use MSN Messenger? I'd be nice to have people to talk about this stuff.
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jethro
Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 178

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:56 am    Post subject: george-3-rd Reply with quote

George-
I am sort of working on the same problem. I think the problem I am having is having my attention resources split wetween what my left hand fingertips are doing and watching the where the next notes are going on the page. I rested from playing about 1 month and started again and
restarted again. I began going from page to page just practiceing the
sightreading skill and it feels like that got a little easier and that has allowed me to put THAT attention to my fingers and it feels like I am
stumbleing arround less where my fingers are going - both getting the
fingertips centered on the strings and the other direction ( pitch).
I'm still way sloppy with 3-rd but It will get better !
So keep trying!
A hint my teacher gave me that helped massively (thank you Dawn)
was to go theough the mucic books and pencil in the position of each note
underneath it. Do 3 or 4 pages a day and in a week your confidence
on sight reading will double ! It dind of burns it into your brain faster
than just playing.

Tim
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Sibemol
Junior Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Third position - help Reply with quote

Hello!
"A Practical Method for Violin" (English/Spanish), by Nicolas Laoureux is an useful method in five parts and in "Part II - The Five Positions and their remployment" contents many interesting exercises and rules regarding the use of the five positions.
I bought the mine (parts I and II) from Sheet Music some years ago (www.sheetmusicplus.com). Perhaps you can find it (if you have any interest) in your own city. Many year ago it was available in S.Paulo with the explanations in Portuguese. I had one but gave it to my brother.
The shifting from the first to another position realy is very hard at the begining. After some time of repeated exercise you may be surprised with your own progress and things became more clear and easy.
I am an amateur (or "an antique beginner") and I am able to use with some difficult yet,up the third position, or seldom the upper ones in certain circunstances.
[/i][/b]
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Arlindo Barlera
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Sibemol
Junior Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Third position - help Reply with quote

Hello!
"A Practical Method for Violin" (English/Spanish), by Nicolas Laoureux is an useful method in five parts and in "Part II - The Five Positions and their remployment" contents many interesting exercises and rules regarding the use of the five positions.
I bought the mine (parts I and II) from Sheet Music some years ago (www.sheetmusicplus.com). Perhaps you can find it (if you have any interest) in your own city. Many year ago it was available in S.Paulo with the explanations in Portuguese. I had one but gave it to my brother.
The shifting from the first to another position realy is very hard at the begining. After some time of repeated exercise you may be surprised with your own progress and things became more clear and easy.
I am an amateur (or "an antique beginner") and I am able to use with some difficult yet,up the third position, or seldom the upper ones in certain circunstances.
[/i][/b]
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Kind Regards!
Arlindo Barlera
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Sibemol
Junior Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:13 pm    Post subject: Third position - help Reply with quote

Hello!
"A Practical Method for Violin" (English/Spanish), by Nicolas Laoureux is an useful method in five parts and in "Part II - The Five Positions and their remployment" contents many interesting exercises and rules regarding the use of the five positions.
I bought the mine (parts I and II) from Sheet Music some years ago (www.sheetmusicplus.com). Perhaps you can find it (if you have any interest) in your own city. Many year ago it was available in S.Paulo with the explanations in Portuguese. I had one but gave it to my brother.
The shifting from the first to another position realy is very hard at the begining. After some time of repeated exercise you may be surprised with your own progress and things became more clear and easy.
I am an amateur (or "an antique beginner") and I am able to use with some difficult yet,up the third position, or seldom the upper ones in certain circunstances.
[/i][/b]
_________________
Kind Regards!
Arlindo Barlera
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Sibemol
Junior Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:18 pm    Post subject: Third position - help Reply with quote

Hello!
"A Practical Method for Violin" (English/Spanish), by Nicolas Laoureux is an useful method in five parts and in "Part II - The Five Positions and their remployment" contents many interesting exercises and rules regarding the use of the five positions.
I bought the mine (parts I and II) from Sheet Music some years ago (www.sheetmusicplus.com). Perhaps you can find it (if you have any interest) in your own city. Many year ago it was available in S.Paulo with the explanations in Portuguese. I had one but gave it to my brother.
The shifting from the first to another position realy is very hard at the begining. After some time of repeated exercise you may be surprised with your own progress and things became more clear and easy.
I am an amateur (or "an antique beginner") and I am able to use with some difficult yet,up the third position, or seldom the upper ones in certain circunstances. [/code]
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Kind Regards!
Arlindo Barlera
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Sibemol
Junior Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Third position - help Reply with quote

Hello!
"A Practical Method for Violin" (English/Spanish), by Nicolas Laoureux is an useful method in five parts and in "Part II - The Five Positions and their remployment" contents many interesting exercises and rules regarding the use of the five positions.
I bought the mine (parts I and II) from Sheet Music some years ago (www.sheetmusicplus.com). Perhaps you can find it (if you have any interest) in your own city. Many year ago it was available in S.Paulo with the explanations in Portuguese. I had one but gave it to my brother.
The shifting from the first to another position realy is very hard at the begining. After some time of repeated exercise you may be surprised with your own progress and things became more clear and easy.
I am an amateur (or "an antique beginner") and I am able to use with some difficult yet,up the third position, or seldom the upper ones in certain circunstances. [/list]
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Arlindo Barlera
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Sibemol
Junior Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:05 pm    Post subject: Third position - help Reply with quote

"A Practical Method for Violin" (English/Spanish) by Nicolas Laoureux is an useful method in five partes. Part II-"The Five Positions and their Employment" shows very interesting exercises and rules on the matter. I got the mine from Sheet Music (www.sheetmusicplus.com). Maybe you can find it in your city. A LONG time ago I got one in Portuguese, there in your city.

At the beginning it's realy very hard to shift from first to another position, but after repeated exercises you will be surprised with your own progress. I can classify myself as "an antique beginner", since I play just for self amusement, but now I can go to the third and second positions easily.

Remember: "Ad augusta per angusta" (one arrive to good results through hard ways). Be persistent!
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Arlindo Barlera
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Bach
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Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another good book is Whistler: Introducing the Positions. It makes learnind 3rd very easy. It is super progressive too. All you play is 1/2 notes for the first couple pages. Smile
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