Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index Violin Forum/Message Board
Provided by Lemuel Violins
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Violin making tools
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index -> Violin Making and Restoration Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ghammond
Member


Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Don,

I see a post on this forum called "What do you guys think of these gouges?" There's some good info there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ghammond
Member


Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I have officially purchased a new antique hand grinding wheel off of ebay, along with some Buck Bros chisels. Hopefully they're good tools. We'll see.

I do have 2 questions:

1. Does anyone have a suggestion about where to purchase a replacement wheel?

Would this one due?
http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Pedestal-Abrasive-Straight-Thickness/dp/B001DSZ7QU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_5

2. What grit should the wheel be for sharpening chisels?

Thanks again everyone!
-G
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DonLeister
Moderator


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 355
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What diameter wheel will your grinder accommodate?
I'll check the type I have, you want a friable aluminum oxide wheel.

This link explains a lot about wheel types. http://www.georgiagrindingwheel.com/grindingwheels_basics.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
DonLeister
Moderator


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 355
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to see a guy roughing out a top and back, check this out. He has some other interesting videos too, I think it is an industry promo kind of video more than a 'how to'.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sasakivn#p/u/10/ksMLyuFKRMA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
DonLeister
Moderator


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 355
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checke d the type of grinding wheel I have and it is made by Camel or CGW, it is 6"x1-1/2x1/2 the type is WA 120-I-V, so I think it is a 120 grit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
ghammond
Member


Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all this information everyone!!

The video of the guy roughing out the back is good. It gives you a sense of what-alls involved.

I checked out the georgiagrindingwheel site. Some good info there for sure! Thanks for sharing it with me!

...

So, my wheel came in! The wheel turns, although it does seem to be a bit wobbly when turning, which is probably not ideal. There's this tricky space between the gear mechanisms that I'll have to fill in somehow. I think I might be able to do this with a washer or something.

Then I was talking to my father the other day and he said that he actually already had a hand operated grinder! So now I have two. His grinder actually seems a bit better than the one I purchased, because it doesn't have this wobbly motion to it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ghammond
Member


Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, does anyone have experience with the gouges offered through Lee Valley?

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=30024&cat=1,41504

I've seen Lee Valley mentioned here and there on this forum, so I suppose they are a reputable tool maker. The description of the gouges sounded pretty good with a hardness of "Rc57-59".

Mind you, I have no idea what that means exactly, but it does sound impressive. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DonLeister
Moderator


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 355
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you want harder, but I'm not that knowledgeable about the numbers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Michael Darnton
Moderator


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1117
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's softer than I'd want, more like in the beer can range. Japanese laminated tools, and old ones, are closer to 62+. Here's one that's 64: http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.310.09&dept_id=12898
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com
my summer project: http://scvmw.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cmkaco
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 23
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has probably already been covered, but since we are talking about it here, how are the Pfeil, Stubai and Dastra gouges? I have some of each. I have read that the Pfeil don't seem to hold an edge when working maple. I really love my Pfeil gouges, because the steel seems to sharpen really well and holds an edge, at least in basswood, which I know is not as hard as maple. The Dastra seems like much harder steel, but just doesn't fell the same.

As far as the term "firmer" some people use this to mean out cannel or bevel on the back, and some people use it to mean a very sturdy tool. I would think that out cannel tools would be better for carving scrolls than in cannel. I would not think that you need very sturdy, heavy bladed tools for violin making, but I could be wrong. Would somebody with more violin making experience please comment. Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ghammond
Member


Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank Mike!

I will get these Japanese gouges then. I'm glad I asked!

Which sizes would you recommend that I purchase for carving the violin? My budget is only going to allow for 3 chisels.

Should I get the spoon type, or the straight type?

Thanks again!
-G
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Darnton
Moderator


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1117
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dumped my Pfeil gouges--too soft. They sharpen well because of that, but it doesn't last at all in hard woods. My knife tips bent (they should at least be hard enough to break, not bend). I have a full set of Dastra gouges for scroll carving, and once they're sharp they rarely need any touching up. My knives are all either HSS or Japanese laminated. Harder steel is harder to learn to sharpen, but once it's sharp, it stays that way for a very long time.

Tool sharpening is something people in my summer workshops consistently have trouble with. I would say that the most common problems come from pushing too hard, and being sloppy in the honing. If I see someone quickly sharpening with a lot of movement, I know their tools can't possibly be sharp.

Most people really have no idea what sharp is. Sharp isn't when you can shave hairs off your arm--you can do that by rubbing with a rock. Sharp is when you can cut the hairs halfway up, in the air, not against the skin.
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com
my summer project: http://scvmw.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ghammond
Member


Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I think I'm going to go with:

3/4" spoon gouge
5/8" straight gouge
1" straight gouge

At least for my first violin. I might find out that I need others later... We'll see!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cmkaco
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 23
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure Michael Darnton can advise if I am wrong (and from looking at his collection of tools, I think he will agree with me) but I don't think the spoon gouge is the way to go.

A few years back, I took a one week long wood carving class (not related to violin making) from a top professional wood carver. This man is classically trained in Europe and does architectual wood carving for high paying clients. We were going over tool selection and I asked him about spoon bent gouges. He said we have one of those here in the shop, and I will show you how we use it. Later on, during a coffee break he showed me to the coffee machine and the creamer. Inside the creamer cannister was the spoon bent gouge. He told me that was the only legitimate use he could find for it.

By the way, Mr. Darnton, can you please tell me what size gouges (sweep and width) and chisels you have that are most useful for scroll carving? Some sites list just sweep 6 (I think the Dastra are all 6) and other list all sweeps. Are there certain sizes that are the most used? Thank you so much for your help and advice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ghammond
Member


Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HA! Well, I guess I'll have to take the spoon off of the list then!

I was considering the spoon gouge because this guy said it was a useful tool when he was making his first violin:

http://z11.invisionfree.com/Stringed_Instruments/index.php?showtopic=16&st=20


I've never used one. Not familiar with how useful they are or not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index -> Violin Making and Restoration Forum All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group