Violin Forum/Message Board

Ajakoda · Junior Member Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3

Hi, i'm new to violin as well as this forum.

I've been playing maybe a month now and I haven't been using a shoulder rest. Should i invest in one? Are they a good idea for beginners?

Thanks in advance.

Leucippus · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Are shoulder rests necessary?

Ajakoda · Junior Member Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3

great, thanks a lot for the response. I think that I have indeed been tilting my head quite a bit. But i'll have to get out the old violin and check to see if i really think i need a rest before i buy one off ebay. haha.
Thanks

SMaus · Junior Member Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 14

Have a look at http://www.sdmaus.com/violinblog/
There are some articles about this topic. Search for shoulder rest and you should get three or four posts.
_________________
Cheers, Steve
Blogging at Violin Blog

Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject:

Ajakoda....You will find that you get better resonance from the violin with a shoulder rest. Without it the violin's back rests on the shoulder and actually dampens the vibration of the back..... sort of like touching a ringing bell.
Cheers, Mat

SMaus · Junior Member Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 14

Some people tell just the contrary. They say the shoulder rest acts like a mute.
Anyway - in my opinion the difference is negligible. Much more important is the length of your neck and possible tension of shoulder and neck if you don't use a rest despite of your "normal" or even longer neck.
Of course, if you have a very short neck you won't perhaps need any rest at all.
_________________
Cheers, Steve
Blogging at Violin Blog

Mat Roop · Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:

Steve... of course you are right... the shoulder rest can act as mute ....as can anything attached to the violin, such as even the chinrest.... or this www.rezx.biz . In the case of the Rezx the muting has a positive effect when placed in the right spot. Generally though the muting effect of the shoulder on the violin's back is greater than that of the shoulder rest because the rest is attached at the ribs where resonance effect is least whereas the body shoulder would rest partly on the vibrating back.
Although I am not a serious player (just a serious luthier) I have found often that the need for a shoulder rest is to cushion the collarbone from the hard edge of the violin.... not to minimize the human neck length issue.... it is an important factor and that is why most shoulder rests are ajustable in height and angle.
Cheers... Mat

Highlander · Member Joined: 25 Sep 2009 Posts: 85 Location: Scotland

Hi I am new to this forum and also relatively new to the violin.
I haven't used a shoulder rest but found a sponge or pad under my shirt prevents me developing a pain after an hour or so of playing. It also helped me find the most comfortable way to position the violin. hope this helps.
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you cant get any worse

Amalia · Member Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129

My personal theory is that the more "natural" your body position is when playing, the better in the long run. The "forward shoulder" position required when no shoulder rest is used, does not seem to fit with my theory, nor is it comfortable for me, so I've rejected it in favor of a good shoulder rest. I had to try a number of different ones before I settled on the one I use now, but it was worth the search. I'm going to try the sponge with my kids though.

Becky · Senior Member Joined: 09 Apr 2007 Posts: 83

SMaus, if there is a music store nearby, you may be better off going there to get a shoulder rest instead of looking on ebay. A good shoulder rest doesn't need to be expensive and for the amount you might save on ebay, it might be worth it to try out different shoulder rests before you buy one. You want a shoulder rest that fits you well. For all the use you'll be getting out of it, I would advise trying it out in advance if that's possible.
If you do buy online, just know that the majority of shoulder rests I've encountered on ebay were very uncomfortable. If you do get one on ebay and don't like it, don't assume all shoulder rests won't work for you. If you buy online a fully adjustable shoulder rest may be your best option because it will give you lots of options for getting a personal fit. Wolf is a good brand as is Kun. Others here might add their favorites to the list. A real kun or wolf shoulder rest on ebay should be fine, but watch out for knock offs and "kun-style" imitations. There may be legitimate ones out there, but several people I know bought kun-style shoulder rests from ebay that either broke or couldn't be used because they were so uncomfortable.
Several professional violinists I know use a sponge type shoulder rest. They don't work for me at all, but many good violinists love them. Explore the options and try out whatever you can before you buy.

John Cadd · Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:42 am Post subject:

I have designed a shoulder rest that needs to be kept attached to the violin chinrest clamps.This means the case needs to have some padding removed from the (back) area directly below the chin. It is about the same area as a chinrest. Would that be a major obstacle for players? It would raise the violin in the case by roughly 2 or 3 centimetres ( if you did not remove a piece of foam padding ).
The point of this is to relieve players of all the well known tensions.
The materials used gives a grippy friction of over seven pounds when a pressure of 8 ounces from the chin is applied.
The rest is silent in operation.It is not sticky in any way.
Look on this as very early market research.At present these are not being produced but the patent has been published.
************************************************************************************
Let me know if the padding in your case is more important than your playing comfort.
*************************************************************************************
---I asked an Italian case maker about this and they were adamant that they would not change their designs.
With this shoulder rest a hickey would be a thing of the past. No clamps are used .It is very thin and very light in weight.
Speak to me.

Amalia · Member Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129

It's got to be removeable, period. Well, it would be ok, perhaps, for a violin that is always left at home in a stand, laying on a table, or hanging on the wall, but not for traveling. I'd want something removable that, ideally, fits in the case without risking damage to the violin if the case is jostled.

John Cadd · Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:36 am Post subject:

Amalia This is a two part design .The part that fits onto the chinrest clamp flexes quite gently and can fold against the back of the violin when you put it in the case.
(Weighs less than a teaspoon!)
This part is no thicker than 4.5 mms . It is "vertically" under the chin when played ,which means the bridge may be raised about half as much.(Say 2.5 mms max ) That would be without any alterations to the case padding. Most players will probably not know exactly how much clearance they have above the bridge inside the case.
Generally I would expect a clearance of 12.5mms (or 1/2 inch ).
I thought it would be best to ask the players about this to see if it would be a worry for them If you have a really high bridge, a simple pad over the chinrest would keep everything in a safe position .
The other part of the design has a loose "collar/neck strap" with some more friction material to match part one. This collar never slips out of position due to the friction material.
There is nothing contacting the violin when you play.The collar part comfortably protects the collar bone and the a major bonus is that changing position downwards is very stable The pulling action of shifting is neutralised by the collar..With very light chinrest contact the violin is completely secure.
When this rest is used the shoulder itself is not involved and a large slice of violin problems are banished forever.
This would be the perfect rest for young children and concert virtuosi.
I made this for myself originally but thought it would be a crime not to show everybody what was possible. Don`t kill the project just yet.
A large manufacturer would be able to reach more players quickly. That will be the next crevice on the rockface

Amalia · Member Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129

It sounds very interesting. Anything that would help kids and beginners to hold the violin correctly without struggling, would be great. I would certainly want to give it a try with some of my beginners, especially as we don't keep those violin in cases at all and don't travel with them. I'd have to be sure there is no risk of damaging the violin itself. Some of the ones with "feet" end up wearing through the rubber and damaging the violin, and kids just don't notice that until it's too late.

John Cadd · Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:51 am Post subject:

Amalia I make these myself at present.I would need to scale down to suit children.How old are the ones you have in mind? The important measurement is for the "collar " part.This has a plastic satchel clip that you see everywhere. Measure around the neck and down just below the second shirt button.,which is level with the collar bone connection. The type of chinrest clamp that works best with this rest is directly underneath the chinrest. The offset type clamped over the centre block are a real nuisance.(at this stage). As I say ,there are no clamps in this design. If you could measure the depth of the violin body at the chinrest clamp it would be a big help.
The pliable/soft materials are chosen not to scratch or damage violins . So have a good trip and I shall guesstimate the sizes till you can dig yourself out of the snow. Our news media is full of snow today.-----All 3 inches of it.
I am not sure how to get them to you but that`s not urgent just yet.