Violin Forum/Message Board

John Cadd · Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject:

Anton As an experiment I drew around the part of the chinrest that I actually touch with my chin and then removed all the unused area.
When I compared the weight of the slimmed down violin with a violin fitted with an offset chinrest The difference was remarkable.I held them by the neck with the body away from me.The offset one seemed massively heavier.Heifetz used a chinrest to the left side.I never had the choice of playing over the tail block ( with a shorter neck ) but even so the total chinrest weight must make the biggest difference.Even if you wanted to play over the tail block the angle of the violin might not suit that position.
On satellite tv there was a concert from Lyon in France and many players had large unused areas of chinrest on show as they played .Black ,so I presume in heavy ebony.
Just a few extra thoughts on the subject.

John Cadd · Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject:

I have managed to get some photos of my shoulder rest in position so you will see how little contact there is with the instrument.Some minor editing and cropping to be done first.

AntonPolezhayev · Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject:

Amalia · Member Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129

I had an over-the-tailpiece chin rest for years and finally pitched it and switched back to an on-the-side one that is so much more comfortable. It sounds like I'm doing everything wrong. Sad

John Cadd · Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:49 am Post subject:

No no ,as you were Amalia. This reminds me of a suggestion I made that the side chinrest strip would be better with a small thin block glued to the ribs (similar to the end block,and right from belly to back).A piece of willow that small would be extremely light and would preserve the vibrations near the edge. I noticed the shape of the chinrest contact area ,if it has a cut-out for the tailpiece .The feet come into the belly area if it is fitted to one side.This can be adjusted on a sanding belt. (after removing ,of course ) .
The extra block would only be fitted to new instruments in case you thought I was a butcher. I never realised that cracks in the belly were caused by this.I have often seen ribs stressed and distorted by excessive clamp pressure. That would be done by a player rather than a repairer. See also bent bridges. It`s in that league.

Andres Sender · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:08 am Post subject:

Amalia don't worry, just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true. Wink

_________________
You can only connect the dots that you have.

John Cadd · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:47 am Post subject:

Andres I dinna ken what you mean.As they say on Radio Merseyside,"Give us a clue Billy". It`s a multiple choice question:
Choose one of the following, Clamps,Cracks,Blocks,Chin/Shoulder Rests. Please show your working.

John Cadd · Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:50 am Post subject:

Andres
If you`ve said that-----and it`s on the internet-----is that true? Discuss.

Lemuel · Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject:

I just finished reading through this entire thread about shoulder rests. I am very impressed and have learned a few things.

For a long time I have been trying to dispense with shoulder rests but have not been able to. The way I got rid of the chinrest grip problem was to let the natural weight of the head rest on the chinrest. The weight of the head is sufficient enough to hold the violin up. I got this idea from a book called "A New Approach To Violin Playing" by Kato Havas. Since then, I have absolutely no more sore chin.

Now I am inspired to dispense with the shoulder rest. I use the Kun shoulder rest and it is quite comfortable to me. I have no pain or tension when I play. However I come across new and used violins quite frequently and most of the time I don't have my shoulder rest around. Also taking them off and putting them on properly can add up in time.

I am asking forum members if anyone else besides Anton has read the book "Ricci on Glissando"? Has anyone else also been successful to dispense their shoulder rest?

Final question: Has any member or reader tried out amezcua new patented shoulder rest that attaches to the violin chinrest clamps?

LSOviolinist · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject:

This topic has always been a controversial one. On the comment about Paganini not using a shoulder rest, all I have to say is this: that unless I am greatly mistaken, ( and if I am PLEASE correct me), Shoulder rests were not around during his time. Not in Vivaldi's nor Tartini's. It would be an interesting experiment to travel back and show them the "Modern Violin" and see if they approved the chinrest, shoulder rest, and fingerboard. Because I can't travel through time, nor fly through the sky, this is purely theoretical. So I take issue with saying that it's "the way it's SUPPOSED to be." If these three gentleman approved of the shoulder rest, that would mean it's the way it's supposed to be, therefore, where would that leave us? Playing the violin is already unnatural and awkward, but, the one who finds comfort for themselves is infinitely right. It is like the quote by Oliver Goldsmith, "Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies." The player creates their reality. I think this boils down to personal preference. For instance, I play with a shoulder rest. I do not, however, play with a chinrest. My absolute comfort is gained with this combination. I have been playing like this for quite some time and it allows me play my best. If I played with the opposite and it worked, then that would be right. What I'm pointing out is that by turning on tunnel vision and saying it's supposed to be one way is like telling the population that there is one size of clothing for everybody. Whatever the piece of clothing is, it's the same size. Imagine the problems. Skinny people, not fitting into their clothing, overweight individuals ripping their clothing and for that 5-10% of the population that actually fits into the specified size, are all overjoyed to find out that they never have to try anything on again! Just wanted my four cents out there. Cheers!
_________________
- LSOviolinist

Lemuel · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject:

LSOviolinist,

Your comments are well received. Smile

I was not promoting or discouraging shoulder rests. I have seen many good violinists with shoulder rests.

My desire to dispense of the shoulder rest is a personal one - a matter of convenience in various circumstances. Trying other violins makes it easier if I do not have to switch shoulder rests from one violin to another. If violins normally came without some type of chinrests these days, then I would have a double problem of trying to switch chinrests as well. Then I would like to dispense of the chinrest also for convenience. Wink

Lemuel

Chad48309 · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Posts: 110 Location: Michigan

I consider it a matter of personal preference. Being an amateur player, I have learned to play violin without a shoulder rest simply because they are incredibly uncomfortable for me.
_________________
-C.S.

Lemuel · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject:

Hi Chad,

How do you hold the violin up? Is it held with your left arm/hand? Can you let go without the violin falling?
Do you move your shoulder slightly forward and up and does it get tired?
Do you have a long neck or a short one?

I'm in research mode now, so I need to know what other players are experiencing.

Lemuel

LSOviolinist · Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject:

Here is some food for thought. Paul Neubauer's ideas on relaxation and posture. He plays without a shoulder rest and tells us what William Primrose told him about holding the instrument. Although he is talking about the viola, the comments also ring true for the violin.

http://www.youtube.com/user/muconycom#p/u/27/NsgIzXmJ00E
_________________
- LSOviolinist