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Cambering Issues

 
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Ed
Junior Member


Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Merrimack, NH USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject: Cambering Issues Reply with quote

My current bow under way seems to have a spot that always shivers when being played. My understanding on the theory of cambering is that the stick is "too flat" where the shiver starts. However, this particular stick is becoming actually too curved - excessive camber in my opinion. I am wondering if working on this same spot over and over has made it "soft", so that it will permanently continue to flex more than the other areas of the bow. If that can happen, it seems to me I should not spend any more time on it. What are your experiences in this area - can a bow develop soft spots due to over-working?
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed, what do you mean by a shiver?... and how do you recognize it?
Mat
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Ed
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Merrimack, NH USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mat, - by shiver I mean that the bow begins to vibrate/bounce at certain points when drawn evenly from frog to tip on one string only (I usually use the D string on a violin). My typical method for adjusting the camber on a bow is to do this "drawing", observe where the bow starts shivering, mark that spot on the stick and then put a very slight amount of bend in the stick at that point. This usually fixes the problem, and the bow draws evenly with no "shiver". Sometimes the shivering can be bad enough to make the sound that comes out sound a little like vibrato or pulsing. My goal is to have the bow draw evenly, sinking in to the string and producing a smooth even sound. If there are better ways to do cambering, I'm all ears!!!
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Jack H.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think that you have made the stick too weak from constant camber adjustments.
What might have happened is that the camber is in the wrong spot.
Might just be a weak bow, and no amount of camber work can fix it.
Generally speaking cambering is done when there is not enough curve in the bow ( it should just touch the hairs in the relaxed state).
Constant recambering of a bow can lead to problems. When the bow was made it should have been cambered to the stick, meaning that some bows need more camber towards the tip, some more towards the middle.
IF you are not having success where in the past you have had success, it just might be that the stick is too whippy to begin with.
The camber should be one nice continuous curve, with no sudden changes, this might have changed with constant cambering in one spot.
Other than this it is hard to tell what is wrong with the bow from so far away.
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Ed
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Merrimack, NH USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Jack. I believe you're correct about the over-working. The stick itself seemed to be high quality wood. Of course, it's possible it had a defect (other than the guy working on it - me:))
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee... And I always thought that it was my shakey hands! I am not familiar with the shiver effect and wonder....How would you know it is the shaft and not the hair?
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Jack H.
Super Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed wrote:
Thanks, Jack. I believe you're correct about the over-working. The stick itself seemed to be high quality wood. Of course, it's possible it had a defect (other than the guy working on it - me:))


Is there a lot of play in the bow when you bend it side to side or does it resist a bit.
DO you have any gun barell pictures of the bow in good light?
How is the curve, even and continuous or is it choppy.
When working on a bow you can't really just put camber into one spot. you have to give consideration to what comes before and what comes after.

Hope this helps.
Would be happy to answer any questions.

Jack Havivi
Havivi Violins
Israel
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francois
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Quebec City

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Arava music strings? Reply with quote

Jack H. wrote:

Jack Havivi
Havivi Violins
Israel

Hi Jack.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but are Arava music strings still available in Israel?
I contacted them about 15 years ago.
Their address was in some kibboutz (sp?) there.

Regards,
François
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Ed
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Merrimack, NH USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jack - there is not a lot of sideways give to the stick. I just tried it again and maybe I'm just too demanding about there being no vibrating/shivering of the stick. It is still only roughly graduated as well, so perhaps it will improve once I finish the bow. - Ed
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Jack H.
Super Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:54 am    Post subject: Re: Arava music strings? Reply with quote

francois wrote:
Jack H. wrote:

Jack Havivi
Havivi Violins
Israel

Hi Jack.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but are Arava music strings still available in Israel?
I contacted them about 15 years ago.
Their address was in some kibboutz (sp?) there.

Regards,
François


I am looking into the possibility that they are still around.
Let you know after work today.

Jack Havivi
Havivi Violins
Israel
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Jack H.
Super Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Arava music strings? Reply with quote

francois wrote:
Jack H. wrote:

Jack Havivi
Havivi Violins
Israel

Hi Jack.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but are Arava music strings still available in Israel?
I contacted them about 15 years ago.
Their address was in some kibboutz (sp?) there.

Regards,
François


I have looked a few times and a few different places, even asked a few musicians... but I have not found any information ..
Will let you know if anything does pop up.

J
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John Cadd
Super Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 819
Location: Hoylake

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the bow shiver ,This may be a playing problem as much as a bow adjusting problem. Put the same question to the players and they may have a few thoughts.It is on the borderline I would say.
I have a light bow that cannot be tamed of a shiver as I play a quiet piece.You may be better off getting two or three bows and try them on the same music.The comparison soon cures you of feeling inadequate about your playing.
Do bow makers find bows that have incurable bad habits?
Maybe a shivery bow is akin to a wolfy violin.
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