Violin Forum/Message Board

terryc

Michael,
I tried just just the varnish on a piece of glass without any pigment and found it diffinately has nothing to do with the pigment. Its simply the varnish, even used different brushes. I've used a little linseed oil in the mixing process as well as turps and still get the same result.
Is it common to get those "zits" as you call them? I guess I originally thought the varnish would lay out like glass unless dust was on the surface, which I know it's not.
Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
terryc

Michael Darnton · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:25 pm Post subject:

That's interesting. What is the varnish?
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terryc · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:15 am Post subject:

I am using Pratt & Lambert 38 Satin, alkyd based varnish. If I might ask, what do you use on your violins? Think I may call P & L rep and have a discussion. Just not all happy with the way this stuff lays out!

Michael Darnton · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:24 am Post subject:

Oh, right, I think you said that before, sorry. It sounds like a varnish problem. I use stuff I make myself--it varies quite a bit from month to month, since I never stop experimenting.
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L P Reedy · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject:

The product description does not sound promising to me for violin varnish. I also make my own, although I don't vary it a lot any more. I keep it pretty simple.

In my distant past I used some Formby's and Ace tung oil finish. I don't remember mixing tube paints with it but did use some kind of coloring. I was happy with the results but went back to home made varnish because I didn't know what all was in the Formby's/Ace stuff and it did not store well.

terryc · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject:

I am not at all happy with this stuff. Spoke to a Pratt rep and he thought I might be spending too much time fussing with it and consequently it was drying too fast. Suggested just a couple of strokes in the same area and move on. Also to slow the dry time maybe add a little mineral spirits. Anyway going to give it a try. I got on to this through my reading on the Maestronet site; was highly recommended by numerous makers. I have been dicouraged from making my own varnish but in the end, I might have to explore that avenue.
Would you mind sharing a base formula?
Thanks
terryc

L P Reedy · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject:

I don't necessarily recommend making your own. I was a chemist in my working life, so I had some advantages. I would recommend using actual violin varnish from such as International Violin rather than architectural varnish. By the way, I've been on MN a long time but have never seen your stuff recommended there.

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:32 pm Post subject:

Most of the hardware store varnishes that coyly imply they're oil varnishes are, these days, not; they're sort of a synthetic plastic using familiar oil varnish solvents. As such they act more like spirit varnishes (what home handyman wants to wait two days for the varnish on his new bookcase to dry, right?) and are more similar to polyurethane varnish than old-fashioned oil varnishes.

The one thing they do offer is that some of them combine and work well with real oil varnishes, oil, and pigments. But this is purely experimental, and you need to know more than you do at this point to understand the nuances of it.

Making violin varnish is not that difficult, really, but there's a learning curve to it that's sometimes painful or downright dangerous. At this point you should probably just buy some real varnish from a real violin place, and use that, as Mr. Reedy says.
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terryc · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:14 am Post subject:

Well, guess I will stick with the manufactured stuff. Thanks for all the good advice! Much appreciated.
terryc

ctviolin · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:26 am Post subject:

Also, just a comment or two here.
Any varnish can have "problems" drying. And adding colorants can also be problematic - until one gets used to dealing with the various problems that might come up.

At any time during the varnishing process, various fine grit compounds can be used to help make any of the surfaces flat, or flatter. And they can be used at any time on dry varnish surface - like - in between coats.

If, for example, you get a lot of dust settling on a varnish coat that otherwise is ok, the surface can be rubbed out if it's a final coat or if it's one of the primary coats.
It can then be varnished over again, if needed.
Compounds like pumice and rottenstone, mixed with a little water with a drop of dishwashing liquid in it to make it disperse better are what I use for this stage.. for rubbing the surface smooth. As smooth as you might want to go.

Oil can be used as a medium for the different grits, but then you must be very careful using it, and remove it afterwards.

Varnish that fisheyes, or that makes fisheyes when you put it on, has a wrong ingredient in it, and another varnish that doesn't have that property must be found.
I've moved away from varnishes that have a property of doing this. Many things will fisheye. Then again, many things used in a (oil) varnish, do not tend to fisheye.
If fisheyeing is a problem.
If the problem is simply smoothing out the "dimples" in the varnish, or, those little protuberances that are always a component of a raw varnish surface to whatever degree that you might get them - then they must simply be taken or "smoothed" off.
In the smoothing off process, I will usually use abrasives of one sort or another. Micromesh is also great as an abrasive if you need to use one.
Then powders can be avoided.
But then again - I like how the various abrasive powders work.
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DonLeister · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject:

Hi Terry, if you happen to be looking at International Violin's stuff, their basic oil varnish will be very similar to P& L 38, I can't tell the difference. However they may sell some colors that will blend well with it, like liquid concentrates or dyes, I'm not sure exactly what they have.
I would say try Joe Robsons varnishes, but I don't think you brush them on, a whole different beast as far as application goes.
Lemuel here sells varnishes too, but I have never tried those brands.
Good luck in your search.

Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:21 pm Post subject:

I've used the Joha varnishes from Lemuel for restoration, and like them a lot....
https://www.violins.ca/varnish/index.html
cheers, Mat